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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |

Machine Delta
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3
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Posted - 2012.03.13 12:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
This is like I said: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=928160#post928160 Really though, I am done with this alliance. Only a smug bastard like mittens could be happy here. Leave the politics out of the actual game before you ruin it goddamnit! Lastly don't complain in this thread if you didn't vote. |

Machine Delta
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3
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Posted - 2012.03.13 12:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
Literally the only problem with titans was forum whoring Only a few unimaginative FC's are pushing this crusade. Leave it to them to pressure CCP.
@ least there are alliances who will adapt and help fix this.
Please CCP, reconsider the reason you put this nerf in. Like this post if you can't stand the CSM strongarming CCP. |

Machine Delta
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7
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Posted - 2012.03.13 12:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ra Death wrote:I'm almost at a loss of words here. Almost, therefore I am going to speak my mind.
So now capitals are basically structure grinding machines and you only deploy them if you have something to grind down or if someone else is grinding stuff down and you catch someone else grinding down something. This is not a solution, this is a plaster for a symptom. There is now ZERO reason to deploy supercapitals except to grind down a structure. Do you really want structure grinding to become the motivator for people to build and create supercapitals in EVE? I mean, I don't believe you have thought at all about the consequences of these changes.
EVE is now effectively sectioned off into two tier combat systems. Capital combat and sub-capital combat. The difference is, capitals cannot touch sub-capitals, but sub-capitals can, in the numbers that are brought at the moment, almost 1-3 volley capitals. The titans were a workaround for that because numbers were no longer the only deciding factor, your playing time, your assets and your skillpoints actually played a role. Now we are going back to a time again where the only effective tool, a VERY limited tool might I add, against blobbing is a damn stealth bomber. No more force projection by taking advantage of the many years you have spent in the game and the money you have pooled into a titan, you are better off selling off said titan and joining the nearest Maelstrom fleet.
What am I meant to aspire for in EVE in terms of combat? What is my incentive for actually training all these skills. To fly the next flavour of the month subcapital ship?
EVE is now a numbers game when there is a large effort to remove counters for large fleets. If this is the direction we're going, we're going to see a bipolar political landscape because being a small alliance, you can now only exist if you are a part of the inevitable two powerblocks that will come to dominate EVE. If you can't match the numbers, too bad... join or die.
Let's get a rethink of the roles of supercapitals and not a temporary plaster that will reduce supercapitals to nothing but ihub and station grinders.
Completely agree with this post. Really this change is over the top and hamfisted. You could have done better and thought this through.
Maybe CCP will implement something else in the end. Only a new CSM is going to help fix this, too bad its not going to change. Rebalancing supercaps is only the start. Every facet of gameplay is now at risk to being exploited by this tyranny. |

Machine Delta
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
16
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Posted - 2012.03.13 15:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
Many posts here by my (soon to be) former alliance lauding this change. Yet none of them see the issue with what we've become.
Too bad that Raiden. (BoB) is going to fall apart with this nerf.  I can only imagine the frustration they must have with this irony. Truly disgusting that CCP has caved (again) to the CSM. Alas, this system was designed to prevent corruption, not enable it. Now we just have to sit back and watch what happens to those who cannot adapt. |

Machine Delta
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23
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Posted - 2012.03.13 18:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
Acwron wrote:Guys,
It's easy to solve this problem : Open a new server for goons. Goonity. Stupidity. The name is up to ze mittani. Will be his server after all.
It's already been named Tranquility |

Machine Delta
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
26
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Posted - 2012.03.13 18:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
U are right of course
Much of the motivation for these changes is hubris. All the Mittani needed was CSM6 to push around to make this happen. Don't think for a second that there won't be more nerfs that hurt PL soon. |

Machine Delta
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
28
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Posted - 2012.03.13 18:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
FawKa wrote:Can I have a graph showing how many subs you've lost today CCP? You like graphs so much these days :)
Just keep an eye out here: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Raiden.
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Machine Delta
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
29
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Posted - 2012.03.13 18:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mage Khour wrote:Sadly but true. But i dont see myself fit into EVE ONLINE anymore, CCP keeps nurfing, nurfing and nurfing.
4 accounts now canceled...
CCP wins, gl with destroying the game !
Perpetuum here i come
4 accounts you are giving up. Sad to see. This is what I'm talking about. The nerf is no good. However many people are for it it still reeks of coercion.
Today I dropped roles from this "alliance" Really it's nothing but a cult of personality for a hubris filled leader now. Instead of running the group he's just using us for votes for CSM. Maybe the other directors will overthrow mittens but I think the tech money is too good. Each one of them is getting Plex and god knows what else under the table. Sadly CCP does nothing about this but will nerf whatever they cry about. Titans are one of many things to go, next will probably be mothership changes. Erebus pilots are already selling like mad, why bother, no one will buy them. Right now lots of people are mad, this is worse than anything BoB/T20 did.
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Machine Delta
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
32
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Posted - 2012.03.13 19:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
LokeeAlfa wrote:2x acounts cancel
with the titan nerf you have just made this game a numbers game. your nerf on titans shows clearlig that you dont have a feling with the game. becuse a big ally complane about titans are imba amd they time on time field wrong shiptypes agaist titans. they never try other ships then drakes and mals. they bring cheep ships and wants to fight min. 3 to 1 there wil no longer be a counter for that. it wil be a numbers game and in my imo that is where you fail ccp. eve have allways been about taktics and use better ships if you are outnumber. like goons never tryed like armor Ahac's / tech 3 / tengus all ships that have a small signatur i dont belive titans wil stand a chance ageinst a signatur fleet. you as ccp need more feling with the game and not just agree on what csm tells you.
and yes i am mad ! and yes i cant spell so dont commen on that look @ what i meen not on the mistake
haha and goons are so bad they need alest 3 to 1 to win a fight
congradz goons you did what you said you made the game yours even that you suks @ it LOL
Kinda surprising to see a titan pilot in an NPC corp isn't it? |

Machine Delta
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33
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Posted - 2012.03.13 19:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Durr Hurrr Durr wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Oh and CCP be sure to change the message for new players:
Join a coalition that can field 1000 dudes or more or don't bother trying to play at all. Oh hi Grath!! You mad?  Why should I be mad that an alliance is getting developer help?
But is that even true? U are saying this but how does this specifically help one side? There are lots of people in my alliance building / training for supercaps. They are going to be hurt by this as well.
Have you considered that this nerf might be good for all sides? Unless you just think its a conspiracy between goons and CCP. Really though I am starting to think that may actually be true. Then again I just don't know if we can take you seriously. |
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Machine Delta
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33
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Posted - 2012.03.13 19:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
Lord Thorin wrote:Incredible that CCP just play into Goon hands!
Lets just call the game "Goons Online" and be done with it. I don't know how goons and others can cry nerf when it's the only way some alliances can counter the huge numbers that can be thrown into one system at any time. They gimp the titan tank by fitting mods to kill subcaps, so therefore take a huge risk to field them in the first place.
TIDI was introduced to deal with large numbers of people therefore making alpha more prevalent, this helped certain alpha fleets and reduced the effectiveness of others....
Just because some alliances have the balls to drop Titans and Supers onto other fleets, why can't the other alliances escalate like the game is intended?
Unbelievable response by CCP and just another move that proves they don't understand how eve works anymore.
Because some alliances... Yours mainly, end up doing this with all the titans and supers on one side. Ever wonder why you lose every fight under a cynojammer?
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Machine Delta
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
35
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Posted - 2012.03.13 19:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lord Thorin wrote:Machine Delta wrote:Lord Thorin wrote:Incredible that CCP just play into Goon hands!
Lets just call the game "Goons Online" and be done with it. I don't know how goons and others can cry nerf when it's the only way some alliances can counter the huge numbers that can be thrown into one system at any time. They gimp the titan tank by fitting mods to kill subcaps, so therefore take a huge risk to field them in the first place.
TIDI was introduced to deal with large numbers of people therefore making alpha more prevalent, this helped certain alpha fleets and reduced the effectiveness of others....
Just because some alliances have the balls to drop Titans and Supers onto other fleets, why can't the other alliances escalate like the game is intended?
Unbelievable response by CCP and just another move that proves they don't understand how eve works anymore. Because some alliances... Yours mainly, end up doing this with all the titans and supers on one side. Ever wonder why you lose every fight under a cynojammer? Very poor response that lacks alacrity, however something one would expect from you. FIghting under a cyno jammer puts the defensive alliance in a good position to field huge numbers + caps/supers. Considering that Goons still have one of the largest super fleet in EVE yet cry nerf is hilarious. You have to admit, lots of the changes recently have been of benefit to goons. I'm waiting for the 1400 howitzer nerf and then we will seriously see some crying!
How is CCP Greyscale part of the CFC? U should take a look at your own alliance history and issues. Really if you had the eagerness to develop and recruit subcap pilots instead of supers Rebuttal here would be the least of your flaws.
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Machine Delta
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
41
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Posted - 2012.03.13 21:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:
What beats a 1200 man fleet?
Bombers. I think also a strong network of forming good alliance relationships. Titans could do it but theres no counter to them at present that more supercaps can't counter. Condescending "old guard" alliances who snivel at low SP players then cry on the forums aren't working for you. Hope that helps. |

Machine Delta
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
41
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Posted - 2012.03.13 21:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
BioZvin wrote:Just looking forward to seeing what you will get nurfed next, when we start beating you with something els... if people are not to mad at CCP to keep subscribing. Honestly I am not far from it myself, think this is a very poor and ill advised "temp" nurf.
Can you atleast make us able to dock our useless ships so we can get in others ?
Well, if you consider that waving around epeen supercap fleets while losing tech moons to us hand over fist was beating us then maybe this nerf will help you guys with a new strategy that actually IS successful. |

Machine Delta
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
42
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 21:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Kazanir wrote: There is no "counter" to 1200 dudes in a single engagement Thanks, thats what i wanted to see. But Titans were obviously what needed fixing most since they had no ...oh wait, dreads, slowcats (which can in fact tank titans, but thanks for thinking you understand eve mechanics) cyno jammers other supercap fleets and even sub caps that can kill them off. Meanwhile, having 1200 dudes under one command is still totally uncounterable, but thats supposed to be ok. To be entirely clear, the nerf changes nothing, an Erebus tracking fit will still volley a Maelstrom or a drake with no problem at all, even a 75% nerf to tracking wouldn't stop this from happening. The 5 scan res is dumb, as it allows even regular caps to escape titans now, they can easily either warp off, jump out or dock up, its absurd that any ship class in eve would take 15 seconds to lock itself. The single most bothering thing about the nerf is the idea it represents. It is essentially CCP's way of saying you either get your own fleet of 1200 dudes or you can't compete, end of discussion.
We already said bombers but you just ignored it until you got the answer you were fishing for you big crybaby. |

Machine Delta
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
42
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 21:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Anela Cistine wrote: There is nothing stopping alliances like PL and Raiden. from simply recruiting the low-skill backbone of a subcap fleet tomorrow. EXACTLY, thank you, numbers are all that matter now. Numbers Online, the internet spaceship game.
Hey, we said bombers. Keep moving the goalposts bro. |

Machine Delta
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
42
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Posted - 2012.03.13 22:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Machine Delta wrote:
Hey, we said bombers. Keep moving the goalposts bro.
Right, so say the average alliance can field 200 guys, how are those 200 guys supposed to keep the 1200 man fleet on the field long enough to let the bombers make a single run, and how much is left of that 200 man alliance after they engage the 1200 man fleet. Scale that if you want to 400, or even 600 guys. The counter only works if you can get them to stay in one place long enough for each bombing run, and if you were to say, whittle numbers while they formed, well, if you kill enough to matter, the 1200 man fleet won't see the field (thats morale winning, not a fleet comp beating 1200 guys) and if you don't then you're stuck in the same situation. So tell me again how an average alliance that could normally field a 200 man fleet is to counter 1200 dudes with bombers. Tell me how a small coalition that could scrape up 600 dudes is going to compete with 1200 guys. The scaling mechanic is so out of whack that its simply not possible. Over 150 maels and carriers start getting vollied, once you reach the full alpha fleet, backed by 400 drakes, 100 collected scimmies, a small bomber group, and however many rifters you are left with a thing that is literally only currently countered by one thing in game: Titans. The answer to what beats 1200 dudes is your own 1200 dudes, as there isn't much else thats going to matter.
You might not be keen on the idea of using more than one ship type in a fleet but there are things called covops, interdictors, and a thing called probing. If you use those with 200 bombers then yeah you could whittle down a 1200 man fleet or marginalize it from its strategic objectives fairly easily. It's painful to see you try so hard here. You should really step away from the keyboard before you admit to wanting to RMT your titan on these forums in addition to the ones you already have cried on.
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Machine Delta
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
42
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Posted - 2012.03.13 22:10:00 -
[18] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Win Sui wrote:
Dunno. Or make some friends and stop being such an elitist prick. That might work too.
Man, its like you all want to say it without saying it. Just admit that you think numbers should win no matter what.
You're the one saying that. Shadoo has so articulately and clearly demonstrated how best to address the issue your white noise posts are really no longer necessary. Maybe you should try out things under Raiden. leadership? |

Machine Delta
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
42
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 22:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Machine Delta wrote: You might not be keen on the idea of using more than one ship type in a fleet but there are things called covops, interdictors, and a thing called probing. If you use those with 200 bombers then yeah you could whittle down a 1200 man fleet or marginalize it from its strategic objectives fairly easily. It's painful to see you try so hard here. You should really step away from the keyboard before you admit to wanting to RMT your titan on these forums in addition to the ones you already have cried on.
1) Ive said my titan will be fine and will function the same as it does now, with a slight delay before the damage hits. Can you identify me saying that I'm RMTing MY titan? 2) If you had 200 bombers, and were facing 1200 guys, how do you propose you talk those 1200 guys into being somewhere bombable??
We both know if I link to a post from kugu it will get deleted. You know what you've said and so have most of the people here. It's been really humorous on this side.
If a fleet of 1200 ships are never in a position to be bombed then they aren't a threat to anything. That would have to be 1200 ships either docked or sitting in their own POS. Neither of which is a concern for 200.
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Machine Delta
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
42
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Posted - 2012.03.13 22:20:00 -
[20] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote: Thats nice, why would they ever be somewhere to get bubbled? Theres literally no need to, they come in, sit in staging tower, then cynoing in their own supers to do any heavy lifting in the system. But hey, at least you had 200 bombers.
Hey wait, are you saying that a few hundred subcaps can't do anything against a big group of supercaps?    |
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Machine Delta
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
42
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Posted - 2012.03.13 22:43:00 -
[21] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Weaselior wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote: Thats nice, why would they ever be somewhere to get bubbled? Theres literally no need to, they come in, sit in staging tower, then cynoing in their own supers to do any heavy lifting in the system. But hey, at least you had 200 bombers. so you drop on the supercaps suddenly, the 1200 guys have to leave the pos and you can then bubble them i hope this helped you in your quest to become average at eve online What am i dropping on them with, I can only field 200 guys and we've already had another goon suggest all 200 guys should be in bombers to hope to kill the 1200 man sub cap fleet? I'm ok with admitting EVE is strictly about numbers now, it seems to be the CFC that has a problem with admitting thats what they want (and have achieved)
So you're saying a fleet of subcaps can't drop on a group of supercaps?
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Machine Delta
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
42
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Posted - 2012.03.13 22:53:00 -
[22] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Machine Delta wrote:
So you're saying a fleet of subcaps can't drop on a group of 1200 subcaps?
Dodging the question. I see how it is. Can't come up with a response so you make a non-answer. Keep stayin mad Grath. |

Machine Delta
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
45
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Posted - 2012.03.13 23:04:00 -
[23] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Machine Delta wrote:
Dodging the question. I see how it is.
Hey, your alliance ignores whole classes of ship, I can ignore your question that ignores what I've said if i want to.
Show us where we've done so?
We've offered viable counters besides "BRING MORE PEOPLE" which are the words you're forcing into our mouths.
When we've offered this counter your reply is "Yeah but what would you do if that 1200 man support fleet was sitting in a pos while supers did the work".
That's not really a tactic we've had to worry about. We haven't gone around bluing up half the galaxy to get super fleets to do heavy lifting for us unlike some entities.
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Machine Delta
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
46
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Posted - 2012.03.13 23:23:00 -
[24] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:EnderCapitalG wrote:
Damn goons are their low-end SP recruitment from the Something Awful Dot Com forums.
You shouldn't be allowed to live in nullsec unless your alliance has a 70million SP average!
This is the problem: Right now, either side can win, as Goons have shown in Tenal. Raiden is done, they're literally losing space and moons in the EU tz, despite outnumbering your supercap fleet. You beat them, admittedly Mittens hit the brakes hard on the campaign so it wouldn't look so obvious, but they're done effectively. What this means is that in the current game environment, people who spend a ton of money on hardware can compete with people whos main resource are warm bodies. This change won't change that, and thats why its infuriating. Its literally a change just for the sake of change, its ham handed, it physically fixes nothing at all. Thats what the retards in the thread seem not to grasp, all they see is somebody posting against the nerf and assume they're mad about the nerf because it gimps their toy. Thats not whats upsetting those of us with any form of game knowledge. Post change, Titans will still track BC's, BS, and shield tanked cruisers (poor onyx and broadswords) just like they do now, they'll hit just as hard, the only thing the change accomplishes is that the initial barrage comes about 20 seconds later than it comes now. The main point of argument here is that many of us see this as CCP trying to push the game towards numbers, the CFC of course cries that this isn't the case, though they would, as numbers are their primary arsenal. They in turn attack our primary arsenal against their blob calling it 'unfair' that we hold so much power. But when questioned about why having more people should be the deciding factor over more money, they don't really have an answer. They call the titans invincible and are shown active counters that work just fine, and when you ask them what the counter is to massive numbers they have fantastical stories about 1200 man fleets that sit around waiting to get hit by 200 bombers. The infuriating part is simply that this nerf doesn't DO anything to the titans against sub caps, it acutally HURTS them against caps, something the dev blog says at the outset they want the titans to be good against. Why change them at all until you're ready to roll out the complete package in a revamp? I mean hell, make it one of the primary concerns of the June expansion, fixing titans into a new complete role. Not nerfing uselessly for the sake of a nerf just to show people you you're doing something that you won't come back to for 2 years. This is effectively akin to CCP going "We don't like blobs, fleets are now limited to 50 members only, but we'll iterate on it later so that you can have our new vision of fleets, we don't know when, but we'll do it, we promise". You see, nothing would change really, its a bit more of a pain in the ass to basically achieve the same thing you have now.
Yeah but we get these GREAT crying effortposts from you out of this so I really am not seeing a downside here. |
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