I'm almost at a loss of words here. Almost, therefore I am going to speak my mind.

So now capitals are basically structure grinding machines and you only deploy them if you have something to grind down or if someone else is grinding stuff down and you catch someone else grinding down something. This is not a solution, this is a plaster for a symptom. There is now ZERO reason to deploy supercapitals except to grind down a structure. Do you really want structure grinding to become the motivator for people to build and create supercapitals in EVE? I mean, I don't believe you have thought at all about the consequences of these changes.

EVE is now effectively sectioned off into two tier combat systems. Capital combat and sub-capital combat. The difference is, capitals cannot touch sub-capitals, but sub-capitals can, in the numbers that are brought at the moment, almost 1-3 volley capitals. The titans were a workaround for that because numbers were no longer the only deciding factor, your playing time, your assets and your skillpoints actually played a role. Now we are going back to a time again where the only effective tool, a VERY limited tool might I add, against blobbing is a damn stealth bomber. No more force projection by taking advantage of the many years you have spent in the game and the money you have pooled into a titan, you are better off selling off said titan and joining the nearest Maelstrom fleet.

What am I meant to aspire for in EVE in terms of combat? What is my incentive for actually training all these skills. To fly the next flavour of the month subcapital ship?

EVE is now a numbers game when there is a large effort to remove counters for large fleets. If this is the direction we're going, we're going to see a bipolar political landscape because being a small alliance, you can now only exist if you are a part of the inevitable two powerblocks that will come to dominate EVE. If you can't match the numbers, too bad... join or die.

Let's get a rethink of the roles of supercapitals and not a temporary plaster that will reduce supercapitals to nothing but ihub and station grinders.

Guys,

It's easy to solve this problem : Open a new server for goons. Goonity. Stupidity. The name is up to ze mittani. Will be his server after all.

Can't beat something? Whine until they change the game about it

Can I have a graph showing how many subs you've lost today CCP? You like graphs so much these days :)

Sadly but true. But i dont see myself fit into EVE ONLINE anymore, CCP keeps nurfing, nurfing and nurfing.

4 accounts now canceled...

CCP wins, gl with destroying the game !

Perpetuum here i come

2x acounts cancel

with the titan nerf you have just made this game a numbers game. your nerf on titans shows clearlig that you dont have a feling with the game. becuse a big ally complane about titans are imba amd they time on time field wrong shiptypes agaist titans. they never try other ships then drakes and mals. they bring cheep ships and wants to fight min. 3 to 1 there wil no longer be a counter for that. it wil be a numbers game and in my imo that is where you fail ccp. eve have allways been about taktics and use better ships if you are outnumber. like goons never tryed like armor Ahac's / tech 3 / tengus all ships that have a small signatur i dont belive titans wil stand a chance ageinst a signatur fleet. you as ccp need more feling with the game and not just agree on what csm tells you.

and yes i am mad ! and yes i cant spell so dont commen on that look @ what i meen not on the mistake

haha and goons are so bad they need alest 3 to 1 to win a fight

congradz goons you did what you said you made the game yours even that you suks @ it LOL

Why should I be mad that an alliance is getting developer help?

Incredible that CCP just play into Goon hands!

Lets just call the game "Goons Online" and be done with it. I don't know how goons and others can cry nerf when it's the only way some alliances can counter the huge numbers that can be thrown into one system at any time. They gimp the titan tank by fitting mods to kill subcaps, so therefore take a huge risk to field them in the first place.

TIDI was introduced to deal with large numbers of people therefore making alpha more prevalent, this helped certain alpha fleets and reduced the effectiveness of others....

Just because some alliances have the balls to drop Titans and Supers onto other fleets, why can't the other alliances escalate like the game is intended?

Unbelievable response by CCP and just another move that proves they don't understand how eve works anymore.

Very poor response that lacks alacrity, however something one would expect from you.

FIghting under a cyno jammer puts the defensive alliance in a good position to field huge numbers + caps/supers. Considering that Goons still have one of the largest super fleet in EVE yet cry nerf is hilarious.

You have to admit, lots of the changes recently have been of benefit to goons. I'm waiting for the 1400 howitzer nerf and then we will seriously see some crying!

What beats a 1200 man fleet?

Just looking forward to seeing what you will get nurfed next, when we start beating you with something els... if people are not to mad at CCP to keep subscribing. Honestly I am not far from it myself, think this is a very poor and ill advised "temp" nurf.

Can you atleast make us able to dock our useless ships so we can get in others ?

Thanks, thats what i wanted to see.


But Titans were obviously what needed fixing most since they had no ...oh wait, dreads, slowcats (which can in fact tank titans, but thanks for thinking you understand eve mechanics) cyno jammers other supercap fleets and even sub caps that can kill them off.

Meanwhile, having 1200 dudes under one command is still totally uncounterable, but thats supposed to be ok.





To be entirely clear, the nerf changes nothing, an Erebus tracking fit will still volley a Maelstrom or a drake with no problem at all, even a 75% nerf to tracking wouldn't stop this from happening.

The 5 scan res is dumb, as it allows even regular caps to escape titans now, they can easily either warp off, jump out or dock up, its absurd that any ship class in eve would take 15 seconds to lock itself.


The single most bothering thing about the nerf is the idea it represents. It is essentially CCP's way of saying you either get your own fleet of 1200 dudes or you can't compete, end of discussion.

EXACTLY, thank you, numbers are all that matter now.



Numbers Online, the internet spaceship game.

Right, so say the average alliance can field 200 guys, how are those 200 guys supposed to keep the 1200 man fleet on the field long enough to let the bombers make a single run, and how much is left of that 200 man alliance after they engage the 1200 man fleet.


Scale that if you want to 400, or even 600 guys.


The counter only works if you can get them to stay in one place long enough for each bombing run, and if you were to say, whittle numbers while they formed, well, if you kill enough to matter, the 1200 man fleet won't see the field (thats morale winning, not a fleet comp beating 1200 guys) and if you don't then you're stuck in the same situation.


So tell me again how an average alliance that could normally field a 200 man fleet is to counter 1200 dudes with bombers.


Tell me how a small coalition that could scrape up 600 dudes is going to compete with 1200 guys.


The scaling mechanic is so out of whack that its simply not possible. Over 150 maels and carriers start getting vollied, once you reach the full alpha fleet, backed by 400 drakes, 100 collected scimmies, a small bomber group, and however many rifters you are left with a thing that is literally only currently countered by one thing in game: Titans.

The answer to what beats 1200 dudes is your own 1200 dudes, as there isn't much else thats going to matter.

Man, its like you all want to say it without saying it.


Just admit that you think numbers should win no matter what.

1) Ive said my titan will be fine and will function the same as it does now, with a slight delay before the damage hits. Can you identify me saying that I'm RMTing MY titan?

2) If you had 200 bombers, and were facing 1200 guys, how do you propose you talk those 1200 guys into being somewhere bombable??

Thats nice, why would they ever be somewhere to get bubbled?

Theres literally no need to, they come in, sit in staging tower, then cynoing in their own supers to do any heavy lifting in the system.

But hey, at least you had 200 bombers.

What am i dropping on them with, I can only field 200 guys and we've already had another goon suggest all 200 guys should be in bombers to hope to kill the 1200 man sub cap fleet?


I'm ok with admitting EVE is strictly about numbers now, it seems to be the CFC that has a problem with admitting thats what they want (and have achieved)

Hey, your alliance ignores whole classes of ship, I can ignore your question that ignores what I've said if i want to.

This is the problem:


Right now, either side can win, as Goons have shown in Tenal.


Raiden is done, they're literally losing space and moons in the EU tz, despite outnumbering your supercap fleet.

You beat them, admittedly Mittens hit the brakes hard on the campaign so it wouldn't look so obvious, but they're done effectively.

What this means is that in the current game environment, people who spend a ton of money on hardware can compete with people whos main resource are warm bodies.



This change won't change that, and thats why its infuriating. Its literally a change just for the sake of change, its ham handed, it physically fixes nothing at all.


Thats what the retards in the thread seem not to grasp, all they see is somebody posting against the nerf and assume they're mad about the nerf because it gimps their toy. Thats not whats upsetting those of us with any form of game knowledge.

Post change, Titans will still track BC's, BS, and shield tanked cruisers (poor onyx and broadswords) just like they do now, they'll hit just as hard, the only thing the change accomplishes is that the initial barrage comes about 20 seconds later than it comes now.


The main point of argument here is that many of us see this as CCP trying to push the game towards numbers, the CFC of course cries that this isn't the case, though they would, as numbers are their primary arsenal. They in turn attack our primary arsenal against their blob calling it 'unfair' that we hold so much power. But when questioned about why having more people should be the deciding factor over more money, they don't really have an answer. They call the titans invincible and are shown active counters that work just fine, and when you ask them what the counter is to massive numbers they have fantastical stories about 1200 man fleets that sit around waiting to get hit by 200 bombers.


The infuriating part is simply that this nerf doesn't DO anything to the titans against sub caps, it acutally HURTS them against caps, something the dev blog says at the outset they want the titans to be good against.



Why change them at all until you're ready to roll out the complete package in a revamp? I mean hell, make it one of the primary concerns of the June expansion, fixing titans into a new complete role. Not nerfing uselessly for the sake of a nerf just to show people you you're doing something that you won't come back to for 2 years.




This is effectively akin to CCP going "We don't like blobs, fleets are now limited to 50 members only, but we'll iterate on it later so that you can have our new vision of fleets, we don't know when, but we'll do it, we promise". You see, nothing would change really, its a bit more of a pain in the ass to basically achieve the same thing you have now.